by Nanette Ashby
This week I am joined by Bima Loxley who is a psychosexual therapist and sex educator based in the UK. I especially wanted to get Bima on the podcast to talk about their training and education to become a sex therapist and what a day in the life of a psychosexual therapist looks like. We share how we both discovered our passion for sex education and how their training was pivotal in changing their perception of the queer community. We also explore common misconceptions of Bima’s work as a sex therapist and how strangers, but also their friends and family react to it. Other points we talked about include reasons why people seek their help and who can benefit from this type of therapy. They explain how common misconceptions around sex in our society, damage individual’s experiences and lead them to their practise. Do race, religion, ethnicity and other factors influence her approach and if so how. Bima and I discuss where the line between sex work and sex therapy is and why it is important to make a clear distinction. We also tackled the question if Sex therapy is a privilege or a necessity. If you are curious about cultivating more intimacy in your relationships, Bima also gives us some tips and homework to try out at home. I really enjoyed this conversations because I was able to talk to a fellow educator who is just as passionate about diversity and inclusion within Sex education as I am. And as you will hear, you never stop learning!
Please let us know your thoughts over on our instagram page @raffia_magazine // https://www.instagram.com/raffia_magazine/
If you like this episode please leave us a rating and review on Spotify- It is really appreciated! https://open.spotify.com/show/60ROIuvNmpqYrAYDOVLp8Y
You can find Bima Loxley here: https://www.bimaloxley.com/
Bima’s Instagram – LoxleySexology: https://www.instagram.com/loxleysexology/
COSRT College of Sexual and Relationship Therapists: https://www.cosrt.org.uk/
Training and Events by COSRT: https://www.cosrtlearn.org.uk/
Episode Transcript:
Bima Loxley
Wham bam, thank you ma’am! I can do it! I just got my orgasm.
Nanette Ashby
Welcome to the gender and diversity podcast Culturally Curious where history and culture have never been more titillating with me your host Nanette Ashby. In this episode I’m joined by Bima Loxley who’s a psychosexual therapist and sex educator based in the UK. I especially wanted to get Bima on the podcast to talk about their training and education to become a sex therapist. And what a day in the life of a psychosexual therapist looks like. We share how we both discovered a passion for sex education and how their training was pivotal in changing their perception of the queer community. We also explore common misconceptions of Bima’s work as a sex therapist and how strangers but also friends and family react to it. Other points we talked about include reasons why people seek their help, and who can benefit from this type of therapy. They explain how common misconceptions around sex in our society damage individuals experiences, and lead them to their practice. Do race, religion, ethnicity, and other factors influence her approach and if so, how? Bima and I discuss where the line between sex work and sex therapy is and why it is so important to make a clear distinction. We also tackle the question of sex therapy as a privilege or a necessity. If you’re curious about cultivating more intimacy in your relationships. Bima also gives us some tips and homework to try out at home. I really enjoyed this conversation because I was able to talk to fellow educator who’s just as passionate about diversity and inclusion within sex education as I am and as you will hear you never stop learning! Bima runs the Instagram page at Loxleysexology, which is a treasure trove of inclusive sex and mental health education on everything related to gender, sexuality and relationships. Go check out her work! A transcript of our conversation and links to everything mentioned are in the show notes over on our website raffia-magazine.com. Please let us know what you think of this week’s episode over on our Instagram page which is at raffia_magazine. If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us a rating and review over on iTunes and Spotify. It is really appreciated! I can’t wait for you to listen to this episode. So here is Bima Loxley.
Hi Bima, thank you so much for joining us today. Could you introduce yourself to everybody?
Bima Loxley
Hi, yeah, my name is Bima Loxley, and I’m a sex and relationship therapist, as well as a sex educator and a bereavement volunteer, which means I counsel people who are bereaved as well. Yeah, that’s me in a nutshell.
Nanette Ashby
That sounds hard to do.
Bima Loxley
I mean, sometimes, and I do it over the phone, so you don’t actually see them. So it’s even harder to sort of not put a face to the voice. But it’s interesting work.
Nanette Ashby
Yeah. So first of all, congratulations on graduating. What is your job title now exactly?
Bima Loxley
Yeah, so my diploma was clinical sexology. But I am basically a psychosexual and relationship therapists, I’m a therapist. The sexology is just because we learn all about sexology. And like the wide range, so that includes medical, literally everything you can think about to do with sex. But I like to emphasize the fact that relationships are in there too, not just sex and that’s quite important, too.
Nanette Ashby
Yeah, that’s usually also what people forget with sex education, for example, in schools, that’s also relationship and sex education and as a big part as well. So how did you first get started?
Bima Loxley
I think I was just like, bored one day at work, temping, just admin. And I was listening to a podcast about sex. And I thought I could probably do that. I didn’t think I could run a podcast. So you know, kudos to you. But yeah, I just thought that the subject of sex really, really interested me. And I thought, surely that’s the thing. And then I went and sort of did research of, what could I do? Like, where could I work? And then I went traveling for six months, and at the end of that figured out that I could join a course to do a Foundation Certificate for counseling, which led into a diploma for sex and relationship therapy. And then when that sort of settled in and I started a diploma two years ago, everything just clicked and I was like, Oh, my goodness, this was me. Like, everything I was doing like, as you know, from a young age, before my even teens, like the things I was thinking about and like, how kind of sexually free I was without telling my mom. Yeah, I used to like give my friends tips about sex. And we used to call them BLTs, Bima Loxley’s Tips. Yeah, like, like the sandwich and then yeah, I just thought, Oh, my goodness – That’s what I meant to be! And then, no looking back, really so happy that I finally like passed and can earn the money that I deserve to earn.
Nanette Ashby
Yes, amazing! I was also just thinking that when you just said, oh, when you look back now it kind of all makes sense. I had that too. I’m really confident in talking about these issues. When in high school, everybody was like, hush, hush, I would just hold presentations about sexual abuse in the Christian church. I think I did once, I didn’t shy away from it. So I can really relate. Yeah. So is there anything you wish you would have known before starting your studies and becoming psychosexual therapist? Is there anything you would tell the people who start now?
Bima Loxley
Okay, so it’s more logistical. It’s nothing to do with what I’ve learned, because what I learned is what I want to learn and already knew, but logistically in the UK, sex therapy, and therapy in general is going to get more regulated. Also, I’m studying a master’s in relationship therapy to get me over to Canada. So I can therap over there. Because in Canada, you need at least a master’s. And obviously, in the UK, you can only have a diploma. And luckily, I was grandparented into the system, which means I’ve done enough, but for future people, it’s kind of like, do your research of where you want to study so that you actually can have a job at the end of it. I wish I had sort of known that I could have gone straight into a master’s after uni. That could have saved me three years. I’ve got two more years of my masters still. So you know, that would have saved me for Canada. But otherwise, yeah, I’m super happy that I did it.
Nanette Ashby
I know from personal experience trying to look for studies, I found it very hard to actually find anything to apply for or to do. So do you think it’s an area of study that is becoming more, I don’t want to say mainstream, but more needed or more popular? Or is it still quite a niche area?
Bima Loxley
Yeah. I mean, it’s very difficult when you’re in the world, like, I’m in the niche. So when I look outside, that’s all I see. But from someone looking in, I guess, yeah, it’s still it’s quite niche. I don’t know the number, but the number of sex therapists compared to just general therapists out there is very little, which is great for me, because it means I can definitely have work. Yeah I know, I’m noticing more and more there, more courses, but you know, to be accredited for COSRT (College of Sexual and Relationship Therapists), which is COSRT, which is like the main accreditation body in the UK, and it is recognized around the world, they only sort of accredit a few courses. For example, you can do different types of masters to learn how to be a sex therapist, but they may not be accredited, which doesn’t matter because you can still be registered. It’s so difficult, like being accredited is like – Hey, I’ve done it, I’ve done all these amazing hours, and I’ve written a bloody essay for it. But registered means that I’ve done the studies and I am a psychotherapist, and I’m at all okay, yeah, there’s so many courses out there, it’s hard to be like, which one is the right one, it’s all a bit unregulated still. The way to go would have been to be a general therapist, and do all general therapy, which takes years and years, and then do your niche into sex, whereas I just skipped it and went straight to sex. And so therefore I don’t therapy, people who have, you know, psychopathology, so like severe depression, or PTSD or anxiety, although most of my clients are anxious. It’s very normal.
Nanette Ashby
That’s good to know, though. Having said all that, it’s not a very straightforward path to take. But what do you enjoy about being a therapist now? And what brings you joy in your work?
Bima Loxley
Everything! I think it’s, it’s so many things. One, it’s to do with client work. So I’m not bored, everything is surprising. And I’m still surprised, which is silly, really, I should know this. But you know, people don’t know what I know, or what you know, right? Within sex ed. So psychoeducation is really a big part in sex therapy is that you’re educating people for what they don’t know, because of their lacking of sex education as kids or because of society is saying something wrong, or backwards. And so it’s always like a learning opportunity for my clients, but also for me, because they bring all new, wonderful stories, and I’m just like, Oh, cool. You’re a cool person, and I want to help you. But also, you know, I’m my own boss, but you know, I’m not doing what I hated. And now for me, it’s truly a vocation. And so I just enjoy, like the fact that I can, I’ve taken three years to do this, and I’m finally done basically.
Nanette Ashby
That sounds really awesome! So as we mentioned before you do specialize because of course, even in this quite niche area, there are a lot of different things you can specialize in, so I can imagine it would be very hard to choose. So what are you specialize in? And why did you choose that?
Bima Loxley
The training is general, as in general sex and relationships. So I know everything to do with dysfunction like premature ejaculation, vaginismus, pain, to relationship issues, arguing, concerns. Also, I’ve trained in intimate partner violence and trauma, kink, gender and everything like that. But for me, the more I’m doing it and the more clients I have and how I sort of market myself plus my Instagram is very much trying to like, find my niche in the queer community. That’s not to say I don’t take on non queer client clients, of course, like I would take on any clients, but I just find a better connection with people who are like myself, and I think they find it useful to that I have this empathy and understanding. So for example, on my website, I that’s what I say I do. And I, I also give a long list of what I do do. But I also give a list of what I don’t do. Yeah, so like severe sexual trauma and abuse and violence, and less on kink, for example, but I have a colleague who I can refer people to, so it’s not like I’m just leaving someone hanging in the air. Who can I go to help with, for, I’d say, queer community. But I’m also really good at like, people with dysfunctions, like the biology of it all, and the pain and desire and arousal, and I love couple work, and I haven’t yet had like, a polycule in the room. But that would be amazing as well. So it’s quite broad. But I also don’t do certain things that I just either I don’t enjoy or just don’t have enough knowledge on
Nanette Ashby
I thought it was really great, when I had look at your website that you actually referred to someone else. I think that’s a really nice thing that I don’t think I see often in that capitalist society,
Bima Loxley
It’s very dog eat dog. Well, I’m on her website, so.
Nanette Ashby
Having said all that, what does a day in your life look like as a therapist? Can you give us some behind the scenes?
Bima Loxleys
Behind the scenes… well, I sleep in, because I don’t work in the morning, now. It’s amazing, then I’ll do what I want. Either I sleep in or I work out. And then I eventually, I think I sort of look at my laptop around 11. And lately, because it’s just starting out, and I’m waiting for clients, I either take consultations, which are like free 15 minute consultation, I talk to people about why they want my help, and if we’re suited, and then I’ll just like have a client here or there in the day. Mondays I work for the NHS, so I have a placement that I work for free. And I have free clients every Monday and I have to travel over. Otherwise, I’m at home, in this room being a bit cozy, and then yeah, it’s quite nice. I will obviously take time to do Master’s essays, and, you know, create an Instagram post, or try and sort out admin, because now I have to do my own books. And I have to sort of set my own calendar and email people back because I get referrals through. So yeah, like, it’s a lot of admin, like actual client work, you know, it, it does use up the day, but there’s, you know, I have to write out notes and make sure everything’s secure. And, you know, you wouldn’t think, Oh, if that’s someone’s therapy all day, they just sit in in a sofa or chair and just take clients, no it’s a lot of other stuff. And I hope that once I get more clients, it’s easier, and it becomes more flowing. And I can actually like manage myself better. But so far, so good.
Nanette Ashby
I guess also, with more practice comes more routine, you can do things more in batch, batches,
Bima Loxley
Exactly! When you’re trying to like fill your space out and trying to look at your calendar. I think I look at my calendar way too much now to be free at this time. Yeah, it will get easier, I’m sure.
Nanette Ashby
Yeah, definitely! Coming back to your studies, because I’m very interested to myself, what surprised you about your studies, or what surprised you during your studies? Because from my point of view, you learn about so many interesting things that I would love to learn about too. So what kind of topics maybe that surprised you? Or what surprised you in general?
Bima Loxley
I think the biggest surprise was that, you know, two years ago, I had absolutely no interest in the queer community at all. Didn’t even know I was queer. And then we had a class on and a trans woman like trans woman therapists came in, and she was teaching us all about LGBT and everything like that. And I was sort of just, I think we were just sort of talking we had like little one on one groups, and I was trying to like describe my gender because she asked, you know, have a think about it. And I did have a think about it. And then I was like, explaining it and she goes well, I think you sound queer to me. And then boom, it like hit me in the face. It was amazing. And that surprised me because I you know, like everyone in this world, I think we have our ignorances and sometimes we can be homophobic or transphobic or whatever the phobic is, I probably was as a younger person. And now I’m just like the opposite. I’m like an activist. And I love that. And it makes me think if I’m sort of thinking about it more, what else can surprise me like, what else is going to interest me? And thing is we can’t be an interested in everything right? Because we will be spread too thin and we wouldn’t be good at what we do. So I like that I found this community. But I’m sure in the future maybe I’ll learn about something else. One thing I think I don’t think I’ll go into kink personally and professionally, but who knows? Someone might surprise me there, you never know.
Nanette Ashby
Yeah, that’s true. I think kink is still something I’m very fascinated by and very interested in. But I think it would be quite a lot in day to day.
Bima Loxley
Yeah. I mean, it’s a lot to learn. I really love the community. And I think it’s amazing and what they stand for, especially in terms of consent and safety, which people don’t think of, do they? But my friend, you know, and peer, who is super into it, I think, you know, if you’re into it, and I can give clients to you, then that’s fine. I don’t need to do that. It’s something I can sort of just relax in a bit. But yeah, it’s, it is amazing. And if I had a client who said, you know, I’m a bit kinky, I wouldn’t throw them away. Yeah, it’s just, it’s how kinky and if I can manage them, I think that’s the point of being a therapist is to know when to say no.
Nanette Ashby
Yeah, that’s a great point. Because I guess you might have the feeling that you want to help everybody that comes looking for support. But I think that’s great that you are learning that boundary that you don’t have to say yes to everything and everybody, that’s really cool.
Bima Loxley
Exactly. Because, yeah, I might get money, but maybe I wouldn’t be so happy in those 50 minutes. And clients are clever, you know, they can gage. And the main thing about therapy as a relationship is the rapport between the client and yourself. So yeah, if the if they can tell or are not interested, it’s just a disservice and unethical.
Nanette Ashby
What are some common misconceptions about what you do? I also was talking to my fellow colleagues at the magazine, there’s still that stigma of sex therapy. So do you face that day to day life? How’s that telling your friends and family that this is now what you want to do? How did you experience that?
Bima Loxley
Yeah, well, the other day, I got a dick pic. That wasn’t fun. I haven’t got one in so long. And then I got one through my Instagram. But from a like potential client although now I’m thinking maybe they never interested in therapy. So I get that. And you know, when you meet someone new, I randomly on the street, you might meet someone, and I say what I do, and they just go ooh, and they like, want to know the gooey, gooey, disgusting stuff. And it’s, it’s like, well, actually, I hardly sometimes talk about sex. We talk more about relationships and communication and pain, you know, and obviously, it’s to do with sex. But I think you could probably imagine, like, the taboo around it, and people go to the most dirtiest awful stuff in their brain. And actually, you know, sex therapy isn’t about that, like, I don’t touch my clients, they don’t get naked. You know, I don’t teach them how to have sex. It’s, well, I might in like, in words, but it’s up to them really to learn that and themselves, not not me to sort of spoon feed them. But you’re in sex ed, I’m sure you get the same and my family and my friends, I think they just sort of think it’s any other kind of job really. They know what it is because I explained to them, and they see my page and what I post about. So yeah, it’s not really that gooey.
Nanette Ashby
Well, I would like to put together a sex education program for the university. And when I tell other students about it, they get very excited that they have someone to talk about these things with or to ask questions. And actually, I found a lot of support in it. So I guess in our generation, it’s, we’re also social media, it’s maybe become a little more accessible to talk about it and to find information.
Bima Loxley
Yeah, I mean, I met someone at the station the other day, just someone random. And I said that as a psychotherapist. And they started like asking me for advice, which I’m kind of like not boundaries, but also really interesting that people suddenly hear the word sex and therapist and they suddenly want to open up to you. And I’m like, wow, you must trust me. Which is quite nice.
Nanette Ashby
Yeah, that’s true. Or it’s also that, Oh, my God, I finally have the opportunity to ask someone. One thing that I’ve also come across as, as you said, you don’t actively engage in any sexual behavior with your clients. And if at all, then it’s like homework, right? That they can do themselves.
Bima Loxley
Yes.
Nanette Ashby
Something I also thought about when preparing was, where’s the line between what you do? And for example, sex work, because one thing I was thinking about was sex work specializes in for disabled people. And in my mind, that is maybe closer than the conventional idea of sex work.
Bima Loxley
It’s a blurred line. And you know, what I’m taught and how in the UK at least, there’s definitely a line between sex work and sex therapy, for example, like there’s a thing that exists called Sex surrogacy.
Nanette Ashby
Exactly, that was what I was thinking of.
Bima Loxley
As a therapist. I cannot refer someone to that. If a client started speaking about a sex surrogate. I might be like, yeah, would you want to talk about it? But I can’t go yeah, go here, I recommend you go there. Just because. Which is kind of shit really, because what’s wrong with sex work, you know? Sex workers are people too, and they have a job and they’re doing really useful things, especially as you say for disabled people or people who need to build up their confidence who because they have a ejaculation issues or something. But I do like to keep that firm boundary, one because I’m just not a sex worker. But two, I think, you know, therapy is a really deep, intense thing at times. And maybe you have to separate the two. But it’s difficult because I’m so new to this. I wonder if my views will change? Not personally, but like, can you have a sex worker who was also a therapist? And do the things at the same time? Maybe, but maybe it depends on the laws? Like I know, in California, for example, you can do that, and you can touch. I believe it’s in California, but around the world, maybe not. And so, yeah, I mean, I have nothing against it, but I just wouldn’t do it. And I think it’s the way I’ve learned therapy and about ethics, and morals, and everything is kind of like mixing the two. But I wonder if that’s just because society says we’re not allowed to do it.
Nanette Ashby
But it’s interesting that it’s in California, because in my mind, America is quite conservative in that area. But okay.
Bima Loxley
Well, there is Love, Sex and Goop which, I don’t condone the company Goop by Gwyneth Paltrow, because she tries to sell a lot of things that people don’t need. But the TV show on Netflix, which is six episodes, I think is based in LA, and they have somatic body workers who touch but who also therapist like therapists style people, and they touch their clients. And I think that was an amazing part of the show, ignoring the fact that they’re connected. So I yeah, I saw, I can see how it can be amazing.
Nanette Ashby
That’s true. And I personally, I think I would like to research surrogacy a little bit more, because I think the intersection between sexuality and disability is what I’m very interested in.
Bima Loxley
If you go to a surrogate, or you go to a therapist, it’s about knowing at the beginning what you’re getting out of it. So if you want a therapist that touches you, then make sure you know that. But there are obviously some therapists out there who will never say anything about touch. And then they’ll suddenly go and touch you, which could make someone really uncomfortable. So it’s about sort of really knowing what you’re going in for and what are the client’s boundaries? But also, what are the therapist boundaries? And fair game really. It’s hard isn’t it.
Nanette Ashby
So what are some reasons that people seek out sex therapy, because of course, there’s that stereotype that only sex addicts or people with diagnosed sex related disorders would come to you. But can a person who doesn’t fall into that category also seek out help?
Bima Loxley
For people who aren’t aware sex addiction cannot be a thing, because we do not have withdrawal symptoms like we would for other substances. So if we stopped having sex, we would not die. The same as sex drive, just call it a libido, arousal, desire. A drive, we don’t have the drive to have sex, because if we stopped, we wouldn’t die as an individual species might die, we will stop having sex, but that’s a different point. But sex addiction is actually at least in the UK, and it shouldn’t be everywhere called compulsive sexual behavior. And disorder if it is really a severe thing. Obviously, there are a lot of people who have that and come to sex therapy, but it’s anyone and everyone age 16 or over, but some people can go for younger. But of course, sex is quite an iffy area s o you want to say with the age of consent. But yeah, you know, so let’s list the things: Erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation, delayed ejaculation and anorgasmia for people with vulvas who can’t orgasm, vaginismus, pain, internal pain, external pain, infertility, relationship issues, relationship check in – so maybe you’re getting married and you think, Ah, I just want to check everything’s okay before I get into it. Maybe even talking about sexual trauma, gender, sexuality, identity, a kink fetish. God, there’s literally lots and lots and lots of things… Types of relationships and monogamy or non monogamy. And then a lot of people just come to me for general like, Oh, I’m not experienced enough, or I don’t feel like I can communicate well, or, you know, I’m having trouble feeling comfortable during sex, loads of things, arousal and desires versus specifically between partners, because they’re always usually mismatched. And then I tell them that that’s normal. And they’re like, Oh, my goodness, your normal! So yeah, loads of things, loads and loads and loads of things. And people, anyone disabled, people of color. queer folks, cis folks? Yeah, anyone!
Nanette Ashby
If I think of relationship therapy, I always think of the stereotype of like marriage counseling, but that presupposes that you have to have a partner.
Bima Loxley
You know, you actually probably see more individuals than you would couples. Because an individual is probably going through something on their own. Like, I don’t know how to masturbate, I can’t orgasm, and they won’t need a partner to help them with that is something that you have to learn on your own. You can’t have sex with someone else if you’re not having good sex with yourself. You know, you can go to therapy with your partner, but the partner has to be consenting and wanting to go, you can’t just drag them along and say, Listen! I f they want to bring their partner in, for example, like they need help communicating or saying something, then you might be able to do that.
Nanette Ashby
And also the partner may change over time. So it might not be I don’t want to say as effective, but it might change with a different partner then in future.
Bima Loxley
Yeah and you know, I get clients who don’t have someone to practice having sex with or practice having communication with but actually, it’s fine. It works out fine. I mean, it’s great if you can sort of say, you know, why don’t you go test the waters a bit, but usually it’s not about that. It’s not about someone else. It’s about you.
Nanette Ashby
So I was very curious, you did mention that you haven’t had a polyamorous situation yet. But did you talk about that in your studies that you would have to adapt to that? Or is it the same principle as a monogamous couple?
Bima Loxley
It’s the same. So I have had couples in non monogamous relationships, but I’ve just never had a third person in the room. But it is the same, we treat everyone as an individual, right? So everyone has their own different needs. But when there’s two or more people in the room, I have to remain unbiased, I have to be neutral, and that give everyone the space and time that they feel that they need so it’s not equal space and time. It’s more equity. Obviously, we were taught about it, and we’ve had practice and my masters will practice me even more for like larger groups of people. But yeah, it shouldn’t be different because why are we sort of looking at polycules and non monogamous folk different to monogamous folks. They’re all human at the end of the day. So we treat them like that.
Nanette Ashby
Exactly! Since we met through sex education training, what do you think is the most damaging misconception that we have about sex that ultimately lead people to your practice?
Bima Loxley
Yeah, I think I say the word society, probably every session, something to do with society, and society’s messages.
Nanette Ashby
Yep, definitely!
Bima Loxley
A lot of the time, I have to remind people that they are themselves and they are an individual and the way they have sex or the way they relate is going to be their way. Don’t listen to society, listen to yourself! Trust in your own body and your own mind! But also penis and vagina sex, for example. I have to take that one down a notch a lot! Yeah, maybe let’s take this off the books for a while, let’s stop penetration for cis hetero couples, for example. Which can be a really good thing, by the way, to stop doing one sexual act if it’s becoming a problem. And that doesn’t mean to stop it forever. It just means to sort of gauge the rest of the relationship and the rest of the sexual acts so that you can have a better sex life. A lot of clients have so many like childhood traumatic messages, whether from their parents, or school, or the fact that no one even spoke to them about sex, which creates shame. And it’s hard because you have to unravel that and sort of create their voice again, and make their voice sound louder. So yeah, I’m talking about sex. But I’m also talking about history. And I go back into people’s past if necessary, but it’s fun. Like, I enjoy it. I enjoy that kind of work. It’s very creative, like someone else in another chair, for example, like a hypothetical chair, and you speak to the past self. Yeah, I love it!
Nanette Ashby
That’s so interesting. The thing that you said about the P and V, I think that’s a big thing that people don’t get that sex has a lot of different definitions. And that P and V is not the only thing you can do as sex.
Bima Loxley
It’s literally everywhere, and I have to sort of teach it out of them. Kissing could mean sex if you wanted it to. And here’s the clitoris. Focus on the outside!
Nanette Ashby
I’ve been watching the show Friends, again. With the training we went through and also I’ve gotten older, I have more experience. It is so interesting that every time I rewatch it I find more things and more situations, that I now understand what was actually meant. For example, the character Joey really did not realize that sex could be anything else than penis and vagina sex. It was the sign of the times. What does that now perpetuate? Because so popular show 20 years later.
Bima Loxley
Even shows and films that are very, very recent, I find myself thinking they’ve definitely just had penetrative sex, even though you can’t see it. Like there is no hand movement around the clitoris whatsoever. And then they come together. And I’m just thinking why still in 2022 are we creating media like this? It baffles me. But I think it’s because people still don’t know, like, we know, you and I, but people just don’t know. And even I sort of sometimes it might even in my own sex life, or just when I’m watching movies, I want that. And I’m like, oh, I want that I want hands free and actually know, why do I want that. But it’s because it’s ingrained from your last 28 years.
Nanette Ashby
Especially the myth of coming together. It’s also something that still gets me sometimes. The logistical nightmare of that, that’s very hard to do.
Bima Loxley
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean personally, I find it easy. But I also know it takes a lot of communication and effort puppet mastering to do something like that. And even then, it’s not even that amazing. Like, it’s kind of like oh, now what?
Nanette Ashby
Okay, a question that I was really interested in, because with my studies, we get trained on how society is made up and how that then affects the people who live in the society. So I was wondering, do the needs for therapy of People belonging to a specific minority differ from those that fit, for example, some the societal norms like cis hetro white men, for example, or white women? Did you get taught how to take the minorities into consideration? And do you even have to and how does that work?
Bima Loxley
I mean, we were taught it. We had different days, for example, on gender and sexuality, but also race, culture. Sex is sex, but also sex is so so so varied that for one person, it’s not going to be the same for another. We have to take into account for example, if you have cis women of color, and the shit show that is the medical world.
Nanette Ashby
Oh, don’t get me started!
Bima Loxley
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, when you’re looking at pictures of vulvas, you’re like, Okay, well, where’s the brown person vulva and the black person vulva? I mean, that’s included, we’re taught it. I think, again, I go back to how we treat the individual. We’re also taught to be holistic and humanistic. So when someone says, I’ve got a problem, and I think, oh, it could be x, y, and z, I have to sort of check myself and think, okay, but if for someone who’s disabled, or someone who comes from a different background, will that be the norm for them? And a lot of time, no. And it’s not about the client teaching me. So I’m not going to suddenly ask them. Oh, my God, can you tell me all about your religion? And everything?
Nanette Ashby
Yeah, exactly.
Bima Loxley
But actually, most clients are quite generous. For example, you know, if I had a client who’s Muslim, they would say, Okay, well, I don’t masturbate, they will say, okay, so what else can we do, and we’d work around that, for example, which for sex, it’s very hard to help someone with sex if they can’t masturbate, but it’s also not the hardest thing, because it’s hard for me, but it might not be hard for them. So I really have to, like zoom out, take myself out and sort of see it from their eyes. We are taught it. But we also are taught to have common sense and recognize that not everyone’s going to be the same. And my enthusiasm for sex and openness will not be the same for someone else. And actually, that can be quite scary when you’ve got someone saying, Oh, my God, you could do all this, when actually, they haven’t even done one thing.
Nanette Ashby
something that I noticed, since I’m an international student at my university, and my studies was very international and English taught. So a lot of international people come here, I noticed that even in between European countries, the knowledge gap was huge. o that’s something I think about a lot when I now want to do sex ed training at university, especially for international students, how do I make sure that the things I teach are also applicable for people of different religions? How do they take their background into consideration because obviously, different cultures means different levels of what you can talk about and what you can’t talk about. And I think that’s a big challenge that I have to face, it’s also very interesting, because I can imagine, especially in a therapy setting, that your lived experiences that are based on you belonging to minority might have a much bigger impact.
Bima Loxley
I think for individual therapy one on one, or having a relationship in front of you is much easier to navigate that. But to teach sex ed to a massive group of people who are all going to be so different, it is difficult. And it’s how can you be culturally and diverse inclusive without harming someone else? And I don’t know that there is an option sometimes.
Nanette Ashby
I definitely see that there’s a need. It’s a big topic that, for example, universities don’t really take into consideration at all. One question a fellow member of Raffia had was, how do you communicate about sex? So we’ve talked a lot about what you can talk about, how do you actually talk about it? What language do you use and why?
Bima Loxley
I mean, I’m always anatomically correct. So I’d say vulva, not vagina. I say clitoris and the penis without shame, I start off shame free. So if I can say it, then at least maybe they feel more comfortable to say it. But I also use their language. If they said something like my fufu I might just say your vulva. Because I think it’s a great place to teach how to sort of remove the shame around something like a nickname like that. If they start saying, fuck, I’ll say fuck, too. So, I, again, I tailor it to them. And if they feel comfortable saying something, then I feel comfortable saying something and but I’m very honest, when I first started therapy, I thought, Oh, God, I’m gonna have to like tear myself down a bit and not be so blunt and so open. And I mean, you can see me I’ve got a blue fringe. So I thought I’d have to take all that away. But actually, I’m just myself. I’m as free as I can be.
Nanette Ashby
The client takes the lead on what kind of language is used. In terms of cultivating intimacy, and I think intimacy is the subject that people don’t really think about or talk about much, what are some good habits or goals that you can recommend people might be able to try out if they wanted to?
Bima Loxley
Yeah, I love this. Yeah, that’s the thing, right? People think that sex equals intimacy and intimacy equals sex, but you know, there are lot of relationships out there that don’t have sex or people who want intimacy and look for it in sex and don’t find it. There are some great tasks if you and your if, usually it works when there’s two of you, because when there’s three of you, it’s quite hard to like do this. But one is the four minute eye gaze, which basically, I’ve done it with my friend as well, but it’s basically you just sit down, get comfy and look into each other’s eyes, put a timer on for four minutes. And you’re allowed to smile, you’re able to laugh, you can blink, it’s not a staring competition. nd you just gaze into each other’s eyes, and four minutes is a long time. And it starts to get really intimate. And it’s like you’re looking into someone’s soul. And I’m not the airy fairy woowoo type of person. But it was really cool when I did this, and I did it over zoom with a friend like, and I still felt something. And you could like, you just see their soul and into their eyes. And it’s really you just connect. So that’s a really good one. Another thing to get intimate with someone is that I say hey, can we take sex off the table? And can we practice, touch and massage and kissing, like, bring back kissing! In general in life, people don’t kiss right anymore, like a good old fashioned snog that lasts a whole minute. For self intimacy, actually, I might add, for people who don’t have a partner, I would say, get comfortable, woo yourself, take a bath, put on some lights, and then undress or keep your clothes on and spend time just being with yourself and exploring your body with your fingers. And this is not sexual, this is intimate, this is sensual. And start from the top and work your way and figure out what don’t I like and what do I love? Where am I zones that turn me on? And what can I learn about myself that I can tell someone? No, that turns me off. It can take as long as you want. You could use lube or oil. And it’s just it’s called self focus, you get used to your body.
Nanette Ashby
That sounds very interesting. I’m going to try and I guess we’re taught that it’s not our responsibility to as you said, woo yourself but it’s always the responsibility of the other partner or you do it for someone else. But actually considering yourself in the same way as you would a partner. I think that’s a really, really nice way of looking at it, that, for example, masturbating is not just a chore or you know, a remedy for relaxation, or sleep. And it’s actually really good for pain relief as well. It’s feels sometimes more as like a utility.
Bima Loxley
A lot of people find it so much easier to find pleasure on their own. Therefore we do it quicker. Because it’s like wham bam, Thank you, ma’am. I can do it. I just got my orgasm, or whatever it is. But actually, yeah, if you take that time as if you are in a in a partnership, it can connect you so much with your body. And especially if you feel so uncomfortable with solo sex, it can make you feel comfortable, because why you being naked and vulnerable in front of someone else, yet you can’t be naked in front of yourself. Yes, we can do that. And sometimes we have shame. But it’s kind of like can we sort of help ourselves first?
Nanette Ashby
That’s very true. So let’s get to some logistical things. Is sex therapy of privilege? Therapy for depression or anxiety is getting a little more mainstream, a little more accepted. But I guess since sex therapy is a little bit of a niche, the question might be, oh, is it even necessary? And how accessible is it? I know that you work in the UK, and we’re over in the Netherlands, my personal experience in finding support, for example, it’s been tricky. It’s been tricky, especially with insurances. So I was just wondering, how’s the situation in the UK?
Bima Loxley
Yeah, well, I can therap anyone in the world apart from Canada and the USA, technically, says my insurance and maybe my timezone it depends I’m not waking up in the middle of night.
Thing is, is that a lot of therapy is a privilege, because therapy is expensive, and sex therapy is even more so. What you’re paying for is a high quality service that would really, really help you and no waiting times, NHS is free in the UK, I work for the NHS, and people are waiting a year during COVID they’re waiting, I think two years. And, you know, either their problems gotten a lot worse, or they’ve managed to help themselves but usually it’s the former. Financially it is a privilege, but there are low cost services out there. And you can find people who offer lower cost. For example, when I am fully in business, and I have more clients and I’m raring, then I will offer lower cost therapy, probably to queer communities, because I think it’s important that trans lives matter. But yes, it’s necessary. You know, the people who come to me they need, whether it might help or they just need sex therapy help. And if the things I say and the things they realized and the things that they learn, I don’t think they would learn that unless they actively went and got sex education, for example, which again, is not really offered is it? Because it’s offered in school. Although I joined a company and I’m offering sex ed for adults soon so you can always use that. But even that, yeah, it costs it will cost money. You So it’s really tough. But also, you know, I put my time and my effort, and I’ve put over 200 free hours of volunteer work. And I still do. I also as a therapist am entitled to pay just like anyone else.
Nanette Ashby
Yeah. And I think it’s also becoming a little more known and a little more accepted as something that people would go seek help for. Hopefully, things will change.
Bima Loxley
Yeah. I mean, you know, I got clients, and I see everyone else I know, have clients, whether it’s super high costs, because people have got so many, so many years of experience, and they’re charging over 100 pounds, and people like me who harge a bit less. And then low, low costs around 20 pounds per session, which again, for some people is really quite a lot, but people go.
Nanette Ashby
So as you mentioned, you have an awesome Instagram page, where you post about sex ed, and therapy, and being a sex educator online is not always the nicest of thing, I hope there were also some positive experiences that come with it. Are there any experiences you’d like to share, or you’d like to give advice for anybody who would also like to branch out?
Bima Loxley
Yeah, I mean, social media is a bit of a fickle bitch, really. One day it loves you and the other day, it hates you. For me, I find it really good. Like, I hate watching the news, I hate big words, which is silly for therapists really, I should know how to speak. But it’s where I get my news from the things that really matter to me. You know, sometimes you can’t trust everything you read online. But I think Instagrams really good. And if you follow the right sex ed pages, do your research of who your educators are. But again, it’s not regulated in the UK is it? So it’s just about making sure you know, who you’re listening to. And if it’s not secretly a conversion therapist or someone phobic. But for me, it’s finding the community. And I think, you know, it’s not a place to bully. And luckily, I don’t get that many bad comments, I don’t get people sort of fighting in my comments section or telling me that I’m a bad person, because I think I remain very, quite neutral, but also very inclusive of people. And also, maybe the name therapy in my space creates more respect, I don’t know what it is that I just don’t get, like, I get it picks, but I don’t get that many compared to people who, daily. It’s a space to be kind and not to be judging of other people. And it’s recognizing that you are in one individual in a vast sea of social media pages. And yeah, someone out there is not going to like you and you’re not going to like them. And that’s okay.
Nanette Ashby
That’s true. So for anybody who would like to also do the work that you do, can you repeat where you can find information on the training you did? Specifically for the UK? Right?
Bima Loxley
Yeah, it would be Yeah. So C O S R T, COSRT, right? It’s like, I’m not gonna say what it stands for, because I forget. College of sexual relationship therapy. That’s it. They are an accreditation body. So just like UKCP, BACP, big accreditation bodies for therapy. If you went onto their website and looked under training, you would then find the courses that they accredit to have a diploma or some, I think there might be Master’s in there. But it is sort of looking at their website and what they offer, that’s the best place to go. So you know that you’re at least sort of in the up and coming correct Contemporary Studies for sex therapy in the UK. America or like Canada, for example. It’s about studying a Masters at least and going from there.
Nanette Ashby
Where can people find you?
Bima Loxley
I guess my business name is Loxley Sexology, L O X L E Y, but my website is actually my name: bimaloxley.com. You can find me there. And my website has like loads of information about me and what I do and how I can help you and my prices and availability, and but my Instagram is more sex ed, free work that I do. So you can learn about anything and everything. But stay out my DMs, if you’re not going to be very nice.
Nanette Ashby
And one question we ask everybody is what are you still curious about in your field? For me, it’s tons!
Bima Loxley
That’s such a loaded question because, especially because I’m still doing my master’s. And still, I think I’m curious about now, how to help groups of trans people. Because next year, I can start taking on groups, which by the way, will be low cost, because I can’t charge for course as a student. So helping more people in the same space and creating a community within therapy. I think that’s what I’m curious about doing and helping people in a better way.
Nanette Ashby
Awesome! Thank you so much for taking the time. This was really interesting. And I’ll leave all the information for you down below for other listeners to find you and also a few things that you mentioned. So thank you so much!
Bima Loxley
Thank you for having me. It’s been amazing.
Nanette Ashby
Thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you so much for listening everybody! And we hope to see you again in two weeks. Bye! Bye!
You can find more information and links to everything we talked about in this episode in the show notes over at raffia-magazine.com. And please let us know what you think over on Instagram at @raffia_magazine. If you liked this podcast, why don’t you leave us a lovely review on Spotify? Thanks so much for listening and all your support for the podcast. I’ll catch you in the next episode. Bye!
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